MS. CALDWELL: Good afternoon. Welcome to Washington Post Live. I’m Leigh Ann Caldwell, anchor at Washington Post Live and also co-author of The Early 202 newsletter.
Today I am delighted to be joined by Melinda French Gates to talk about her work to expand female representation in elected office and her quest to expand paid leave and so much more.
Melinda, thank you so much for joining Washington Post Live.
MS. FRENCH GATES: Thanks for having me, Leigh Ann.
MS. CALDWELL: So, Melinda, I want to start with vent with Pivotal Ventures. It’s a new focus for you on trying to elect more women running for office. So just, say, taking a step back here, you for so many years had been working on women and children around the world. So is this a redirection of your focus by focusing here in the United States in elected office, or is it an expansion of the work you’re doing?
MS. FRENCH GATES: Well, thanks for that question, Leigh Ann. I’m still a co-chair of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, and we do work, as you said, globally and definitely empowering women around the world.
Then, in 2015, I started another company in the U.S. called “Pivotal Ventures,” which is really focused on, in our society, how do we make sure we get more women and people of color lifted up in really key industries and places so that we change society, and so this work that I’m doing around the political space, because we don’t yet have enough female legislators around the country, is really to make sure that we get that pillar done in the U.S. and I do that work through Pivotal Ventures. So it’s an extension of my work.
MS. CALDWELL: Why did you decide to get into this? Was there some sort of, as Oprah likes to say, “aha moment” that this is something that needs to be addressed?
MS. FRENCH GATES: Well, I’ve been lucky enough through the foundation to travel all over the world and to many low-income settings, and so often I would be returning home thinking, oh, I wish more women were empowered in these countries that I was visiting. And yet the truth is when I turn the question back on myself, we’re not yet fully empowered in the United States. You know, we don’t have parity in our halls of Congress, not even close. We don’t have parity in the tech sector. We don’t have parity in finance. So we have a long ways to go, and the world really looks to the highest-income country in the world and says, “Well, why aren’t you there yet?”
And so I wanted to make an investment behind that. I started this company, and I made a billion-dollar commitment in 2019 that we were going to get Women at parity.
MS. CALDWELL: How do you do that? How do you use that money to make such a change?
MS. FRENCH GATES: Well, I’m working with many, many partners in the field, and we’re looking at research and what research is needed to show why women don’t have parity in certain sectors. We’re looking at barriers that hold and push women down, like our broken caregiving system in the United States or the harassment that happens of women in the workforce, and then we’re looking at what key industries do you really need to get closer to parity so you tip society. And I believe those industries are politics because that’s who makes our policies and laws. I believe it’s finance. That’s where we move our money. I believe it’s tech because that’s who’s creating our society. And it’s media because that’s who tells our stories. When we get women closer to parity in those industries, you will tip society.
MS. CALDWELL: You’re in D.C. right now. One of the things that you have done on your trip is you met with women members of Congress; I believe, freshmen women members of Congress. Tell me about that meeting. Who did you meet with, and what did they tell you?
MS. FRENCH GATES: So I met with four freshmen women of Congress, and what I really wanted to hear and learn from them is, what did it take to run? What barriers were you up against? Even once you knew you wanted to run, what barriers were you up against? How did you overcome those? Many of them had been–three of them had been state–at the state legislature level before this. What did it take there to run and to be successful and create great policy? And now what’s it like being in the halls of Congress?
And the reason that’s so important is for me to learn what the barriers are and what we might do to overcome them, because we are sending women into a broken system, and unless we fix the system, we will never get more women and people of color to actually be in the halls of Congress.
MS. CALDWELL: What did they say those barriers were, or what are you hearing from other women who want to run? What are the structural challenges?
MS. FRENCH GATES: Yeah. I’ve met with many women also who want to run, for instance, at the state legislature level, and you hear some very common themes. You hear of harassment when they’re–and even sometimes abuse when they’re on the campaign trail. You hear about how difficult it is to raise campaign finances when they’re new in the field, whereas they’re up against a male competitor who, say, can self-fund his campaign. They’re leaving their jobs, their full-time jobs, and they’re having to dip into their savings to be able to run. So campaign finance is huge.
Caregiving. If they have a child, they’re saying, you know, “During the pandemic, we could remote-vote, but we can’t do that now. And so if I have to travel to my statehouse or I have to stay late into the night up on the Hill here in D.C., I have a child. I have caregiving needs.” So one of the solutions there is a organization called “Vote Mama.” They’ve got it passed now in 29 states that you can actually use your campaign finances for childcare. That makes a huge difference. So those are some of the barriers women are up against.
MS. CALDWELL: And I have a follow up-question from a member of the audience who said–it says Alissa from here in D.C. She asks, “What are some of the structural solutions we can promote to build women’s political power?”
MS. FRENCH GATES: Well, we know that women in groups have more power, and one of the organizations that I fund and anybody can fund–you can send them $25; you can send them a hundred dollars–it’s called “Vote Run Lead,” and what they do is they go out and canvas, and they look for women they see are ready for office. They tap them on the shoulder. You sometimes have to tap them more than once to make them realize they are ready. They help them raise funds. They help them with harassment on the campaign trail, and as soon as they get into office, they help them network right away so they can very quickly come up to speed and start to make good policy.
MS. CALDWELL: Should your investment in specific candidates be considered an endorsement?
MS. FRENCH GATES: So, well, first, I think it’s important to understand that I do two things. First and foremost, what we’ve been talking about is I’m trying to get more women and people of color into the system, no matter which side of the aisle that they are on. I believe we make better policy when you have people who represent all of society at the table, and I believe we deserve as a democracy for our halls of Congress to look like us. So that’s where I’m putting the most money behind that particular idea.
Then I do put money behind specific candidates personally who I think endorse my values, but no, I do not right now. I have not yet endorsed a candidate, because even after they’re in office, I meet and work with people on both sides of the aisle, because the best policy is made when you come together on both sides of the aisle to create change.
MS. CALDWELL: I would ask a little bit more about that, about you. It doesn’t matter what party or political affiliation a woman is with that you might put money behind them to help them be successful. How do you maintain this effort when it is purely nonpartisan? So often organizations come and go, or they aren’t just able to sustain if they don’t have a political bent and a specific focus in what they’re trying to achieve.
MS. FRENCH GATES: Well, I’m funding organizations whose focus is solely more women and people of color into Congress. So Vote Mama is about breaking down the caregiving system, which is a huge barrier for women, or I might put money–or I have behind–put money behind Latinas. There’s a Latinas Represent organization. They’re about getting more Latinas into Congress. So I’m really–you can focus. Vote Run Lead is not about are you Republican or Democrat or independent. It’s about making sure women know and people of color that they’re ready to run and let’s get them into office.
So these organizations have existed for some time, and I think will continue to exist over time and, they absolutely don’t have to be partisan.
MS. CALDWELL: So you wrote in Times Magazine around the anniversary of Dobbs that abortion is an instance–the Supreme Court decision–that reminded you that decisions are still being made for women. So would you support or are you okay with organizations that support women who are anti-choice?
MS. FRENCH GATES: Well, I support organizations that get women into these seats of power. Then when I put my personal money behind a candidate, I use that money to really represent my values, and so I believe that women should be able to make that decision by themselves. That is a personal, painful, private decision that should not be made by our government. So I will look for candidates who support women’s health in general and letting women make that decision.
MS. CALDWELL: You talked about representation and how it is not equal between men and women. Let’s look at the congressional level. It’s about one every four members of Congress, House and Senate, are women, but there’s a greater disparity between Republicans and Democrats. There’s only 16 percent of House Republicans are women compared to 43 percent of House Democrats, according to Pew.
I have covered this issue for a very long time. I did a story a couple of years ago about the record-breaking number of Republican women. There was about 30 that entered Congress. Are there–when you talk about these structural barriers, are there also structural barriers within parties or politics that prevents women from succeeding?
MS. FRENCH GATES: Absolutely. And I heard about that this morning from these freshmen congresswomen, and they said, you know, sometimes you finally get the seat, and you’ve won a really difficult race in your district, but then you get to your seat of power, and you’re not supported by your party, or they put you on a committee that’s sort of a sideline committee. Yes, you’re a freshman. So, of course, you’re not going to get one of the biggest seats that exists, but you don’t often get supported within your party. And that’s a problem too.
So I think the party is waking up and saying, look, our rep–the people who are in our party need to represent society. To me, it makes zero sense that today there are 16 million Black women in the United States, and there is not a single Black female senator. Not one. And yet we’re supposed to look–our halls of Congress are supposed to look like our democracy, and the difference is when you start to get women where they’re much closer to parity–take Minnesota. They’re not there yet, but 38 percent of their people that are state legislatures are women. They just passed some record-breaking legislation right before the end of their session that had to do with paid family medical leave, homelessness, abortion rights, things that we know voters and women care about, and part of the reason they were able to do that is there’s so many of them, and they have gotten to those seats of power, and they hold a lot of power in their legislature. That’s what I’m looking for the U.S. Congress to start looking like.
MS. CALDWELL: Would you ever run for office?
MS. FRENCH GATES: No. I’m very happy in my current role, and I feel like I have a lot of work ahead of me. But I work with, you know, lots of people in government, lots of partners, civil society. I think private sector–it takes all of us if we’re going to really create change in society.
MS. CALDWELL: Mm-hmm. So we’ve talked a lot about Congress. Let’s look at the state legislator–legislature level. You say that that is also a place that you are going to focus in. We mentioned one in four members of Congress are women. In the state legislature. It’s a little bit better, about one in three. Why do you think that they’re–that it’s such an important place to also have more women and people of color?
MS. FRENCH GATES: Well, because at the state legislature level, they make a lot of policy that affect people in their state, and you feel it really substantially in your state. They control at the state legislature, $2 trillion of resources. So you want them looking like society.
There are also 7,000 seats at the state legislative level. That’s important because it’s a great place that is a wonderful training ground for people to then go on to higher office. In fact, you see many people who are in Congress today actually came through their state legislatures. So, for me, that’s a great place to focus because there are so many seats and opportunities to effect change and create policy.
MS. CALDWELL: Do you have any specific goals for the 2024 election as far as your objectives and what you want to see?
MS. FRENCH GATES: Well, I want to see in this election, central to the election, two things on the agenda; one, caregiving. Our caregiving system is absolutely broken in this country. It was starkly in our faces during covid, and now women are saying they’re opting out of the workforce because it–they either can’t find good care for their children or it’s too expensive. So I want to see us fix this broken caregiving system.
I want us to see what–do what the Nordic countries did 30 years ago and have good paid family medical leave, because when you have it in place for 30 years, it changes society. Men take the leave. They participate more in the raising of the child. So I want to see a whole system discussed around caregiving.
And then also, I want us to address adolescent mental health. We have a crisis in this country. It was building before covid came along. Covid exacerbated it, but you can’t talk to a family that hasn’t had some end of the spectrum of some form of mental health crisis coming out of covid, and so there are things we can do about that.
For instance, insurance should absolutely help cover medical health expenses, not just physical health. We should have more places people can go to reach counseling, even before they’re in crisis. So those are two key issues that I’m looking at in this election.
MS. CALDWELL: Those are two issues that Congress has been working on but have not yet been successful in passing any sort of legislation. Is there any hope that this gets done, this is able to get done in the next couple of years, or is this purely something that the private sector or personal individuals and families are going to have to deal with and figure out?
MS. FRENCH GATES: Well, the private sector will never solve this because they don’t–they only represent a certain part of society. So today, if you look at who actually has access to paid family medical leave, it’s still well under 30 percent of U.S. citizens. So states are starting to pass good policy and law. We’re up to 13 states. We’ll never get all 50 states. So this has got to be taken up by the federal government to create the norm and the change, and I do think there’s a chance after the midterm elections. There’s already a very strong coalition going on this in the House, and there’s starting to be more of a coalition, a bipartisan coalition, again in the Senate. So I think the way they will tackle it might be different than in the last legislative session where it got very close to coming across the line. But I do think after the midterms, it will get passed.
MS. CALDWELL: Some would say that Republicans have been very slow on this issue, on paid family leave, especially. You mentioned there’s a bipartisan group in the House. There’s one that’s building in the Senate. But what do you say to critics who say it’s not–there needs to be more Democratic representation in order to accomplish these things, because it’s an issue that Democrats have championed for such a long time? What is your reaction to that?
MS. FRENCH GATES: Well, we know voters care about it. Whether they’re Republicans or Democrats, they’re saying, “We care about this issue. We want to have leave,” and it’s not just leave for a child. That’s incredibly important when you have a child, but they’re also–we’re seeing this hugely aging demographic in the country. So many families are taking care of aging parents, and that’s going to just continue and be even more so. So their constituents are saying they want it. So I think they need to get together and figure out what is a policy that can make sense in the United States?
MS. CALDWELL: I have another question from a viewer. We have Susannah Wellford, who is the founder of Running Start. So she works in this space of getting women elected to office. She says, “We know that educating girls early about politics means they will grow up more politically active and more likely to run for office. But many people consider politics dirty, and girls are not encouraged to see themselves as political leaders. How can we change culture to value young women in politics the same way we value young women in STEM?”
MS. FRENCH GATES: Well, I think we can point out that this is where our policy is made and that we need young women who represent society in politics because they have the power. I mean, they literally have the power of the pen to create good policy and make decisions that become law.
And so what I’m hearing is more female lawmakers are spending time going out to schools, going out to colleges and pointing out these can be good jobs. You can look like me. I’ve made it to the halls of Congress. So whether they’re doing that at Howard University or they’re doing that at Georgia Tech or they’re doing that at NYU, again, you can’t–it’s very hard to be something you can’t see. And so I think having these legislators out and these Senators out talking to groups of young women and young men, I do think that will help.
And we have–far more women also are lawyers now, and that’s, again, a good training ground for going into politics.
MS. CALDWELL: Mm-hmm. Great. I’m debating on where I want to go because you mentioned lawyers, and my colleagues at The Washington Post have done a lot of reporting about the Supreme Court, and that is also still very much dominated by men in the sense of the lawyers who argue before the court and the entire business around it. And I guess that’s more of a comment than to say, how expansive–the question, I guess, is, how expansive could your efforts be? Do you plan to go more broadly, beyond just electing women to Congress or state legislatures? Is it about administration jobs? Is it about other branches of government, including the Supreme Court?
MS. FRENCH GATES: Well, it was interesting. One of the things I heard talking to these freshmen Congresswomen this morning–then I asked several other people on the Hill–they were saying it’s not just the lawyers who argue at the Supreme Court at the top of the land, but they’re saying it’s the political consultants are often usually White male. They’re saying the staffers who are trained to come into our offices are White males. That shouldn’t be. We need to develop those pipelines.
So part of the reason that I come out and do these learning sessions, whether it’s in a state that I visit or whether it’s here in the Capitol, is to hear what else is needed and then, yes, to keep expanding efforts. We need to look at pipelines everywhere to make sure that good, solid policy is being made by these legislatures, and that often means you need really good staffers in your office who understand what’s going on.
AI is a perfect example. Like you’re not going to get an older state legislator who understands AI. You’re going to get a young staffer who’s going to have a lot of–wield a lot of power and really help educate their legislator about what’s needed, I believe, in the AI space or in the tech space.
MS. CALDWELL: And you brought up, Melinda, exactly where I was going to go next, which is AI. You’ve raised concerns about bias in AI and it being dominated by men. Can you talk a little bit about what that means, what sort of impact that would have if there is not equal or at least closer to equal representation in artificial intelligence?
MS. FRENCH GATES: Well, I think we can look back in history for a perfect example here, and that is the Founders of the Constitution. They wrote some incredible laws in place that govern our country today. However, women didn’t get the vote. Black people definitely weren’t counted, and look how long it took for us to get the vote for those two groups. And now look at the bias we still have in society, particularly around women and people of color. So, with AI, if you don’t have women with a seat at the table creating AI, helping with the rules, helping with the regulations, if you don’t have people of color, you’re automatically biasing it towards one part of society. So that’s why I believe we need to have, in that STEM pipeline, really good pathways for women, not just into computing but also into artificial intelligence, because again, they have a lens on society that’s not better or worse. It’s just different than a man has. And I want to make sure that AI is made for all of us.
MS. CALDWELL: There was a report that came out just this week that said women are more likely to lose their jobs than men by the end of the decade because of the rise of AI and automation. What’s your reaction to that?
MS. FRENCH GATES: I don’t think we know the answer. I don’t think we know that answer yet, and I think that answer is still being written. We can take action.
So I understand, and I think we need to talk about the concerns. They’re absolutely valid concerns about AI, and there’s amazing promise.
But we are in 2023. So, you know, we’ve got seven years. Seven years is a long time to be able to change this game. So as long as I’m here and a lot of other people pushing on AI and hopefully more people in the field and we build the pipelines, that doesn’t necessarily have to be the case. So I don’t think that future is written. I’ll wait to see if that prediction–we’ve predicted a lot of things. We predicted robots were going to, you know, five years ago, destroy all of our jobs, right? Nobody predicted covid. So whoever thinks they can predict that in a decade, let’s wait and see, because I think we need to take some of those concerns and worry and create the–instead create urgent action to change that.
MS. CALDWELL: Does the tech industry have any responsibility here in ensuring diversity within artificial intelligence–
MS. FRENCH GATES: Of course.
MS. CALDWELL: –and there–yeah.
MS. FRENCH GATES: Of course, they do. Of course, they do. And some of them have really grouped together. There’s a group that I’m also part of funding called “Reboot Representation,” which is about how do we help attract more young women very early in their schooling into these STEM fields, show them that there are good jobs, report salaries, report what levels women are getting to so we can actually look at what’s going on and create that change. And so I think they do have a role to play here. When they create good paid internships and they go out and recruit from some of the non-traditional places, you get a woman or a person of color with a foot in the door. Once she’s got that on her résumé, she can fly. So they have a role to play, and I think some of them are playing that role, because they’re also seeing that the products they create are better off and will reach more markets if they have diversity at the table.
MS. CALDWELL: Melinda, I have another question from our audience. Apparently, we got so many questions for this, for our conversation. So I’m going to sneak in one more. Angela in Washington State, she asks, how important is childcare and universally public–universal publicly funded preschool to the advancement of women?
MS. FRENCH GATES: I think it’s–it could be groundbreaking. I mean, this is what is holding women back in our economy. If they cannot take a job because they don’t have affordable, high-quality childcare, they will sit out of the workforce. And they’re telling us, as this hybrid workforce is changing, they’re being called back into the office. They’re in a crisis because we had collapses in places of the childcare system.
So between that–and then again, universal pre-K, when you have that, you know that your child starts off on a good path in life. All we need to do is look at the Nordic countries and see how they’ve done their universal pre-K and their childcare. It’s allowed more men and women to work, and it has changed norms in society and made things more equal. So I think of it as vital.
MS. CALDWELL: We’re almost out of time, but I have one more question about your field, philanthropy. Do you think that it matters when more women are involved in making decisions on how philanthropic dollars are spent, where they go? Are the decisions different, and does it matter?
MS. FRENCH GATES: Well, I do think the decisions are different, and I think it matters. I think, like any industry, you should have more women making decisions, because again, they will see places that need to be funded. They will see partners that maybe somebody who’s in the field or has been in the field for a long time who’s male won’t see. They’ll see the childcare need. They’ll see the needs surrounding the schools, because maybe they’re in and out of the schools more. So I think having women anywhere that decisions are made or resources are controlled is just a good thing for society. And that includes philanthropy.
MS. CALDWELL: Melinda, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. The work you’re doing is incredible. I can’t wait to see where it goes. I walk the halls of Congress every single day, and yes, there is–there’s definitely lacking women and some–many instances, people of color, especially. Thank you.
MS. FRENCH GATES: Thanks, Leigh Ann. Thanks for having me.
MS. CALDWELL: Of course.
And thank you for watching today. To watch this program again or our future programs, please go to WashingtonPostLive.com.
[End recorded session]
